Western Masculine Ideal vs. Asian Masculine Ideal
So here’s a great article on the 10-year anniversary of the movie Fight Club and it’s impact: Fight Club 10 Years Later
… Fight Club isn't saying something as simple and inane as men are pussies. It's not a dumb jock statement of being a "man." Rather, it shows how through the alienation of social institutions, and the de-masculination of culture, the rugged individualist is rare. How to tap into being a man, fast?
"Punch me as hard as you can."
… watching Fight Club, ten years later, with all that we have available to us, it seems even more prescient. For better and often for worse, we've become even more disconnected from ourselves. And even more narcissistic. People text, they twitter, they communicate online instead of talk on the phone or in person. They create alternate identities and pretend to be tough in, of all places, chat rooms, and blogs. Can you imagine a flame war in a biker bar? It's no surprise Fincher's now making a movie about the social networking site Facebook. Tyler Durden would now be a viral creation.
Although the writer of this article is a woman, I think most women don’t fully understand why men nowadays feel disinherited and disconnected from their sense of masculinity. Which is why the book and movie “Fight Club” is so popular. I think with Asian American men, this disconnect is compounded by the fact that we’re a minority with few role models. We end up looking to masculine ideals in Western cultures, not realizing there have always been masculine ideals in Asian cultures.
This is also the point Frank Chin makes in his writings as well. When a great cultural heritage has either been stripped, suppressed or forgotten, then men either emulate other cultural models to give them a sense of manhood or they make the sh!t up. We already have masculine ideals in Asian culture. It just needs to be a part of Asian American culture.
Throughout history Asian men were laborers, soldiers and pirates in far off lands all over the world. They were away from their wives and loved ones for long periods of time.
Don’t you think Asian men got busy doing the horizontal mambo with the local women in these far off places? Well if you look, at places all over the world, like the Philippines, Africa, Central Asia, the Americas and even in Europe, Asian men have left their sexual legacy. So much so that Asian men have altered the gene pool of entire countries.
Now I’m not saying that being a man-whore is the masculine ideal to strive for. People act like the Western masculinity and Asian masculinity are mutually exclusive. But men are men, no matter what part of the world you’re talking about. Men of all cultures do stupid sh!t, like wage war, screw lots of women and say things they later regret.
The Western masculine ideal stems from Greco-Roman culture, a major thread in European and Euro-American culture. Their ideal masculine archetype is that of the warrior-explorer-conqueror. It was Julius Caesar who gave us such a succinct gem as:
“I came. I saw. I conquered.”
Greco-Roman artwork tended to glorify the warrior’s physical strength and the body he chisels through training and battle. This physical ideal is still with us, which is why men go to the gym. Every guy feels like they need to look like the guys from 300.
Side note: Although Western society idealizes the Spartans, this cultural ideal conveniently leaves out the historical fact that the Spartans and other ancient Greeks were pederasts. Hence the reference to anal sex as “Greek style.”
Asian cultures also glorified their warriors. Much of what is discussed in Asian literature is mostly military-related: The Art of War, The Book of Five Rings, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Water Margin. Although the physical ideal was not depicted in glorious fashion in ancient Asian artwork, Asian men did practice strength and combat training.
But something happened with Asian cultures (particularly Confucian-influenced cultures such as China, Korea, Vietnam and Japan) that altered the masculine ideal. When Confucianism spread across such societies, the role of the scholar was elevated and the role of the warrior was downgraded. The exception of course was Japan, who kept the samurai at the top of the class hierarchy.
So for well over a thousand years in Confucian-based societies, the key to success was to study hard, get a government job and everything you wanted (wealth, women, happiness) would follow. Follow the conventional path to success. Don’t take risks. Don’t stand out. And as result, many Asians nowadays are unhappy and live unfulfilled lives due to a thousand years of social programming.
Here’s an extreme example of social programming: Scaredy Cat Tigers
Zookeepers in China say their tigers have grown so tame that they're frightened of the chickens they're supposed to eat. The Chongqing Wild Animal Park has five rare adult white tigers which were originally trained to perform tricks for visitors, reports the Chongqing Morning Post. Keepers have been trying to encourage them to follow their natural instincts by throwing them live chickens - but without success.
Feeder Shi Ruqiang said, “They're supposed to be wild and scary, but due to their soft lifestyles and human care they have gradually lost their wild nature. I have been trying to interest them with live chickens but it was quite a funny scene. The tigers were so scared that they wouldn't go near them. One chicken passed out and the tigers did eventually approach it - but then it woke up again and squawked and they ran for their lives!"
Shi says the keepers are now forcing the tigers to stay outside their cages for at least 12 hours a day to toughen them up. And they are planning to introduce a wild tiger to show the domesticated big cats the ropes.
"If all else fails, we will simply cut down their rations until they are so hungry that they are forced to hunt for themselves," he added.
Comments
Human consciousness has evolved beyond the scope of ethnic subjugation and physical violence. Of course that doesn't mean it still doesn't happen, but I would hope to think we are less barbaric as a human species now than we were back then.
This is why I'm convinced the economic tide is turning toward Asia. The era of a nation dominating by exercising its military muscle is being displaced by nations leveraging their economic strength. People with the brightest minds, hardest workers and understanding the respect for others will prevail in the new millennium. Everything else will follow suit: entertainment, sports, etc.
In no way am I condoning we raise our children so tamely they mimic the zoo tigers in China. My parents never taught me to stand up for myself, and avoid confrontation at all costs while growing up. They always advised me that I simply "ignore it". That kind of social programming was, and in some ways, still an albatross to me when it comes to confrontation. I've had to make a conscientious effort to curb that habit, but being raised this way K-12, it ain't easy to switch your demeanor just because you should know better.
The point is, we should still embrace Confucianism, but preserve our honor by defending ourselves and speaking out against social injustices AA face instead of unequivocally remaining the "silent" minority. Finally, a message to Asian parents, teach your kids to stand up for themselves and punch any kid in the face who disrespects them by calling them a chink or gook. Let 'em grow a pair goddamn it!
I think that for Asian men more important than cultural ideals of masculinity are the development of masculine cultural practices. In "Fight Club" the characters reconnected with their aggression through the practise of unbridled and barely disciplined violence.
It was the process and not the description that drove the catharsis.
Then would enlisting in the military substantially contribute to the development of masculine cultural practice for Asian American men?
The Korean government for instance, still requires all its male citizens under 35 to join the military for 15 months.
Thanks for posting! I agree: there ought to be a balance. I find though, just like you, that I have to overcome my "social programming" every once in a while in situations which require me to act or speak up.
Confucianism certainly has its merits. It came around during a turbulent time in Chinese history and it was needed in order to maintain harmony and minimize chaos. But i think its done its job way too well.
Anonymous,
Glad you decided to come out from lurking and post! You bring up a very good point: that it's the process, not so much the ideal to reconnect in a healthy way with a masculine identity and our natural tendencies for aggression.
I think this is when life experiences (travel, relationships, etc.), hobbies and training (martial arts training, strength training, sports, etc.) come in to play. Kids and adults nowadays have a lot more options to pick activities which isolate them from world. but if you pick experiences and interests that allow you to interact with a wide variety of people, then you'd "grow a pair" as MaSir says.
I think this is why the PUA guys have such a following, because their process forces men to get out and interact.
Absolutely. Any endeavour that takes Asian men outside of the comfort zone of cultural/social expectation is an endeavour that Asian men should undertake. Masculinity thrives on beating the odds and going against the grain of expectation and coming out on top.
"I think this is why the PUA guys have such a following, because their process forces men to get out and interact."
I think that's very true. I don't know much about Asian PUAs but I think they set goals that give their followers a tangible process of (presumed) success.
G-A
But we all know that China turned inward and that led to them not understanding the world outside themselves.
And it dovetails with what has been said here already: get out of your comfort zone. Get off the goddamn couch, stop playing X-box and PS2 shit, stop gaming online. Get out of YOUR ISOLATION. Engage with the world around you.
Does anyone remember what Bruce Lee said when asked why he trained so incessantly? Apart from him mastering his art, he said, "Because life is combat." I never did understand this whole idea in the Asian community about not wanting to cause trouble, not getting involved, or speaking out. I had hoped it would have died out with the older generation. I mean, what is it? does it have something to do with bringing shame or dishonor? Who the fuck cares about that when someone is getting all up in your shit and pushing you around?
MaSir Jones brings up a great point about the economic tide turning towards Asia. When I get time, I'd like to post something new along those lines.
The reason why 'Wen' were more highly regarded than 'Wu' in certain period of Chinese history was so that the ruling class, elites, emperors...etc can have control over it's citizens and retain social order or harmony. So if less importance were given to militants and martial artists, people would less likely to have the power to rebel against the rulers. In another words the Confucianism that we associate with today is most likely to be distorted from it's original philosophy and was used to manipulate the masses. It's the same kind of principles that Asian parents have effectively adopted when bringing up their kids to be more obedient. All for the good intention of course but the wrong idea.
I think the better way to look at it is that masculinity has been lost in Confucianism in recent history. However the Wu aspect hasn't been totally absent from Chinese or Asian culture considering how many wars our ancestors have fought through and succeeded. But the importance of Wen and Wu changes depending on the situation, thus it's ideal to have a balance of both for different circumstances. I hope that makes sense.
In my opinion the Confucian ideal represents the ultimate delusion of the triumph of morality and virtue over human nature; the people who believe that human behavior must be regulated strictly are certainly very afraid of what human nature because in it they see only everything that is bad and ugly.
But is Confucianism to blame, or is something else at work here?
It seems all but forgotten but the last hundred years alone has seen massive wars raging throughout Asia. We were certainly not short of soldiers and warriors back then who risked and sacrificed everything for the sake of an ideal. Certainly we should have had heroes within the last fifty years alone, instead of from antiquity? This simple question drives me to believe the answer isn't as simple as the Confucian ideal.
:o
Mojo, I think that whole scthick about not causing trouble has nothing to do with shame and everything to do with serious political persecution and social repression. It wasn't too long ago that being outspoken could mark you and your entire family to an anonymous death, or even being systematically picked on by your entire community. Hey, if it can happen just because of the colour of your skin and the shape of your eyes, this isn't a stretch to imagine. +_+'
Does anyone remember what Bruce Lee said when asked why he trained so incessantly? Apart from him mastering his art, he said, "Because life is combat."
Excellent point you bring up, Mojo. The Chinese metaphor for life is war, because war has consumed much of China's history. I would imagine other Asian countries have a similar metaphor.
Confucianism created a hierarchical social structure that gels very nicely with this metaphor that life is war, life is combat. A Chinese family is really like a platoon. Every decision is made strategically, risks are calculated and mitigated, just like in war.
I had to throw in something else. I've heard of a lot of stories of systematic and bureaucratic abuse of soldiers and military personnel by their own governments all over the world. Joining the military to advance the "masculine ideal" or even your own masculinity would be a very unwise move.
Joining the military is definitely not for everyone. When I was young, joining the military was to be avoided at all costs.
Like all things, military training would have different effects on different people. Some people would come out with greater emotional resiliency and confidence while other people would come out mentally scarred.
The military experience would give some people needed discipline to self-actualize, while other people would turn into close-minded inflexible anal retentive A-holes. It depends on the person.
I think there are many ways to develop confidence and self-reliance OTHER than joining the military. Team sports and combat sports would help I think. Interacting with other people regularly in social settings helps.
The reason why 'Wen' were more highly regarded than 'Wu' in certain period of Chinese history was so that the ruling class, elites, emperors...etc can have control over it's citizens and retain social order or harmony. So if less importance were given to militants and martial artists, people would less likely to have the power to rebel against the rulers. In another words the Confucianism that we associate with today is most likely to be distorted from it's original philosophy and was used to manipulate the masses. It's the same kind of principles that Asian parents have effectively adopted when bringing up their kids to be more obedient. All for the good intention of course but the wrong idea.
Good point! This has parallels in Western civilization, where Christianity was used by the ruling powers to subdue the masses and bring about order amidst the aftermath of the decaying Roman Empire.
The point I'm bringing up is that while there are a lot of good things about Confucianism, the philoshophy promotes a "fixed mindset."
People with fixed mindsets believe in adherence to tradition, strict regulations and obedience to authority. They tend to avoid challenges. They do well in academics, a system that punishes failure, something that is necessary for experimentation and growth.
People with a "growth mindset" believe in constantly expanding and developing. they take on more challenges despite the risks. they're not easily offended by criticism. They have an advance and conquer attitude.
I'll give you a couple examples in Chinese history:
1) In the 15th century, China was the most technologically advanced nation on Earth. Zheng He led a massive naval fleet to explore the world.
And yet right at the peak of her power, China decided to burn all her ships, close her doors and retreat in isolation. This was mainly the work of Confucianists in the Imperial Court. They burned all records of Zheng He's voyages and burned documents of the technology involved in shipbuilding. What followed was a steady and slow decline in Chinese power.
As they say, "Use it or lose it."
2) The Confucian social hierarchy puts scholars at the top and business people at the bottom. While scholars tend to have a fixed mindset, business people to have an advance and conquer, growth mindset. This mindset along with a society hierarchy that did not want them, caused merchants to leave China to make their fortunes elsewhere for hundreds of years. The society essentially shoved its economic engine, the population that drives growth, to other countries. hence the Chinese diaspora.
Now China has done a 180 and has grown its economy by leaps and bounds.
The point I'm trying to make, is that while I'm admire Confucianism for promoting self-cultivation and morality, it tends to create rigid thought, which leads to routine behavior and lack of creativity. Sometimes rules are meant to be broken.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty#China
"China
The Way of the Academicians
From Hua Ying Chin Chen (Variegated Positions of the Flower Battle) China, Ming Dynasty (1368–1644)
Men's sexual interest in youths was reflected in prostitution, with young male sex workers fetching higher prices than their female counterparts as recently as the beginning of the twentieth century. In Tianjin there were thirty-five male brothels, housing 800 boys, and men from the area were assumed to be expert in anal relations. Though the superintendent of trade at Guangzhou issued an annual warning to the population against permitting westerners access to boy prostitutes ("do not indulge the Western barbarian with all our best favors"), Europeans were increasingly welcomed in the boy brothels.[67]
[edit]Japan
Main article: Shudo
In Japan, the practice of shudō (衆道), "the Way of the Young", paralleled closely the course of European pederasty. It was prevalent in the religious community and samurai society from the mediaeval period on, and eventually grew to permeate all of society. It fell out of favor around the end of the 19th century, concurrently with the growing European influence.
Its legendary founder is Kūkai, also known as Kōbō Daishi, the founder of the Shingon school of Buddhism, who is said to have brought the teachings of male love over from China, together with the teachings of the Buddha. Monks often entered into love relationships with beautiful youths known as " chigo (稚児)", which were recorded in literary works known as "chigo monogatari (「稚児物語」)".[68]
[edit]Korea
One of the earliest mentions of male attraction to boys is that of Gongmin of Goryeo (r. 1351–1374), the 31st king of the Goryeo dynasty, who was famous for his predilection for falling in love with young boys. After the death of his wife in 1365 he is reputed to have spent his time in the practice of Buddhism and relations with boys, establishing an organization for their recruitment.[69]
Paul Michaut, a French physician writing in 1893, described Korea as a country where "[p]ederasty is general, it is part of the mores; it is practiced publicly, in the street, without the least reprobation." He associated its prevalence with that of syphilis which was likewise general.[70]"
There are pederasts in many societies, that's a given JF.